Nya, nya, nya, nya, nyaaaa!!
By now you've possibly heard this portion (or a portion thereof) of a 2006 Obama speech. The entire text can be found at Obama's site.
Here's the juicy part:
"But what I am suggesting is this - secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant (sic), Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. So to say that men and women should not inject their 'personal morality' into public policy debates is a practical absurdity. Our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition."
Oh, my. Oh, oh, my.
So, progressive Obama fans, starting to regard B.O. as less cool, maybe? Less of a spokesperson for your views?
Yes? No?
Ohhhhhh, I had no idea things would get this entertaining this quickly.
Lee
8 comments:
I don't think that
1) An excerpt from an Obama speech with no other context can be of much substance when discussing something as complex as the separation of church and state, laws, and morality.
2) A desire for the separation of church and state prohibits the use of personal morality in decision making (it would be impossible, for one, and also, the separation is on an institutional level, not personal).
3) Progressivism prohibits faith, religion, or personal morality.
1) ??? Then he doesn't take those positions? Explain.
2) I agree. Zillions of progressives, however, apparently do not.
3) Didn't say it did. But, again....
Thanks for commenting.
I agree with the Obama speech but feel that since JFK made his "I won't let the Pope run this country" speech 48 years ago in Dallas, we've become more polarized. Religious people need to tone their religion down, but so too do the atheists, who are ticking off the religous folks. We all share one secular country, with freedom to choose.
Oh, and BTW: the quote misspelled "William Jennings Bryan"---there's no 't' on the end of his name. The 't' belongs to Anita, of Florida orange juice fame.
I hadn't noticed the misspelling, which is straight off B.O.'s site. I just added the Latin "sic." Thanks.
As for "religious people" toning their religion down, do you mean conservative sorts who want the Bible taught in class? Who want to establish that the U.S. is a "Christian" country? Etc.? I suspect you mean these strange types.
Problem is, it's hard to stop such activity, since a mass-mediated culture is one in which endorsements naturally dominate. (I have a theory that mass technologies ultimately exist to advertise themselves.) Look at all the industries, institutions, areas, etc. that get promoted 24/7 on the public dime--sports, the weight loss industry, "America's Got Talent," rock music, beauty pageants, cars, oil, etc. It's the way of our day. That is to say, the pushing of religion is not out of keeping with the pushing of other things.
But it's the official endorsement of religion (or the appearance of an endorsement) that inspires calls for censorship. Problem is, it's improper for state, local, or fed government to promote any of the things I've mentioned--unless, perhaps, they were to do so in a fair, inclusive manner. And do they even try?
In short, this is not a problem unique to faith, or issues thereof. It's life in the repeated-information age.
Obama's eloquence on religion and has ability to talk to voters like thinking adults were one of the big reasons I was drawn to him in the first place. I particularly was moved by this speech: http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid353515028?bctid=416343938
I think you miscast progressives. We want people talking about faith and morality as opposed to the kind of simplistic and uninformed "faith based" policies of the current administration that try to dictate morality.
You perhaps need to brush up on progressivism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism
Two things I have no desire to do: 1) Listen to another cliche-ridden speech by B.O. and 2) rely on Jokeipedia for anything heavier than record album dates or TV show cast information. At least until they become, say, an actual encyclopedia. Otherwise, thanks.
Funny you ask for discussion and then react like a two year old who sticks his fingers in his ears and calls names.
I've been waiting for a Democrat to talk about faith and more importantly to make moral choices for a long time. For a progressive like myself, Obama is a breath of fresh air. I can't wait to cast my vote.
I actually like many of John McCain's policy's at least the policies he used to espouse 8 years ago when he was running against Bush. I've always looked at him as a patriotic pragmatist. But religious he is not and I believe while his record shows him to be a man of integrity, it's a practical integrity vs a moral integrity.
As a long time fan of your music blog I find reading your commentary off-putting. How does someone with such broad taste in music have such a closed mind. I'm not asking you or anyone else to agree with me, but rather to engage in honest discussion which is sorely lacking on the internet.
James,
I have an idea--how about practicing some of the civility you'd like to get from others?
It's a thought.
I just find it odd that you would end an insult-athon with a plea for open-mindedness.
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